Were either Platt or Matix ex-military? Not only does Jihawg guarantee that all of their ammunition meets or exceeds S.A.A.M.I. [11] McNeill was then shot in the hand and, due to his wound and blood in his revolvers chambers, could not reload.[8]. Our Honest Review, How To Buy Guns Online: Armslist Firearms Marketplace, Best EDC Medical Kit Buyers Guide [2023], Best 9mm Competition Pistol: Faxon FX19 Hellfire. This difference is obvious after firing into ballistic gelatin. Gordon McNeill: Smith & Wesson Model 19 .357 Magnum revolver, six rounds .38 Special +P fired. [8] At an unknown time, Matix had regained consciousness and he joined Platt in the car, entering via the passenger door. Black Talon rounds were known for the unique construction of the bullet and its sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. Unlike the Black Talon, for whichnegative media attention caused the discontinuation of the line, G2s R.I.P. But now the hysteria is .223 fragmenting into a bunch of tiny pieces. 366 (S.D.N.Y., 1996)) claiming that Olin Corp. should be liable for the shooting spree based on the design, manufacture, marketing, and sale of Black Talon ammunition. Firearms Trivia - Winchester Black Talon Ammunition So, the point is, a shooter in a high stress defensive situation may not hit well, so any hit needs to count. The core is made of high-antimony lead making it extremely tough, delivering controlled expansion for unparalleled terminal performance. Black Talon is a type of ammunition that was introduced by Winchester Ammunition in 1991 primarily for law enforcement and self-defense. This Lubalox coating was to protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing capabilities. The resulting cartridge, the Black Talon bullet offers a low-velocity missile that retains its weight, penetrates even when interrupted by intervening objects, and remains capable of expansion in soft tissue. Mireles drew his .357 Magnum revolver, moved parallel to the street and then directly toward Platt and Matix. The most interesting thing about Black Talon rounds is that they are still used today by ######. Wal-Marts in my area stock PDX-1 all the time. Misconceptions abound regarding these bullets, and you might even hear phrases likeits overpowered, its specifically designed to kill people, or strangely enough, its armor-piercing.. The claims against Olin were dismissed because it was held that the plaintiff could not prevail because there were no defects in manufacturing, design, or in warnings the bullets "functioned exactly as designed".[11]. This "reverse taper" refers to the bullet's jacket being thicker at the tip than toward the base, enhancing rigidity which allows the sharp petals to remain largely perpendicular to the wound path, unlike traditional designs where the expanding jacket petals would peel back almost completely behind the expanded lead mushroom. No, Black Talon rounds are not armor piercing. The 5 Most Controversial Handgun Rounds | OutdoorHub The .40 S&W PDX1 cartridge is available for purchase by civilian shooters and was the primary service ammunition of the FBI until 2017 when they switched to the Hornady Critical Duty line.[16][17]. Gun #: 975110313 Seller: GunFactory ( FFL) $219.99 Full Details 1 Image (s) Elevation Talon 46 Bow Case Black 46 In. Matix was then shot in the right forearm, probably by Grogan. In the shootout, the eight FBI agents were mainly armed with Smith & Wesson Military and Police .357 Magnum revolvers shooting .38 Special +P ammunition. I need a bunch of those!! [7][8][9] Some medical personnel were concerned that the sharp barb-like tips could potentially cause tears in the surgical gloves and hands of the medical workers, exposing them to greater risk of infection,[2] however there are no documented reports of this actually happening. The Black Talon Story | Springfield Armory Forums Black Talon .357 Mag Cartridges - Long Range Hunting Forum You will have so many people reading and hearing about you that you will think that you are famous or something. San Francisco put together a new law banning Black Talon ammunition. The Ranger SXT ammunition sold later by Winchester is very similar to the Black Talon though without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. SIG's standout defensive handgun load is the Elite Performance blend with V-Crown bullet, available in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP, as well as others. Even though it can be found on sites like GunBroker for a premium, people are still in search of a modern-day equivalent. Both were preoccupied with getting Doves gun working and did not detect that Platt was aggressively advancing upon them. William Matix: Smith & Wesson Model 3000 12-gauge shotgun, one round #6 shot fired. PDX-1 looks the same on expansion as the BT, except now the claws are filled in with lead because PDX-1 is a bonded bullet, which is a superior design to the non-bonded BT. My love of sharp things extends to all kinds of edged weapons, be they small, large or on a stick. They dont really contribute very much to tissue damage. [18], Around this time, Metro-Dade police officers Rick Frye, Leonard Figueroa and Martin Heckman arrived. Some say that SXT stands for the same exact thing. If you are desperate to get your hands on the original Black Talon, you can find it online, but at a jacked up price. Anyone who might need to use their firearm in an urban or otherwise built-up environmentwould be remiss to not consider using hollow point rounds. Think a little bit harder/smarter. Manufacturer. John; That said, there are other rounds with armor-piercing attributes that are not covered by the law, such as teflon-coated bullets, or so-called cop-killers. These rounds are covered in a layer of polytetrafluoroethylene, which was initially added to reduce barrel wear. Is Black Talon ammo still made? - Wise-Answer OutdoorHub // Winchester Black Talon is arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow-point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with the human body. Following the Long Island Railroad Mass Murder in 1993, Black Talon ammunition attained notoriety in the media and with the anti-gun lobby. The Black Talon is an interesting and entertaining exotic sword in Destiny 2. 22 years old. Stay Tuned to the RE Factor Tactical Blog and be part of this all VETERAN-run website. [8] Problem here is that in the LE business the females cannot qualify with the 10MM I would think. The Shooter's Log, is to provide informationnot opinionsto our customers and the shooting community. Other than the collectibility of the Black Talon, the author is definitely right about other ammunition being just as good and some even being close to identical just by a different name (I like the SXT round reference.same exact thing..lol). Please be respectful of others. This is simply a brilliant piece of work. And the Golden Sabers that I fired did NOT have any pointed jacket petals; they were of a blunt shape. Today, Black Talon bullets are no longer manufactured or sold by Winchester, but similar types of hollow-point bullets are still widely available and legal for civilian use in the United States. Underwood is the only thing that i trust to keep my wife and kids safe when I am not at home. A 4 Sig and a 4.5 S&W both worked well. Introduced at the 1991 SHOT Show, Winchesters Black Talon was the ammo companys answer for a more effective self-defense bullet demanded by the FBI following the 1986 Miami Firefight. Winchester Ammunition 250 Grain Jacketed Hollow-Point (JHP) Ammo Details. 2023 The SOFREP Media Group. The Black Talon and other high-performance ammunition combine a hollow point, which enables the bullet to expand upon impact, and notched configurations, which direct the expansion into a sharp . Of the ten, only one, Special Agent Manauzzi, did not fire any shots (his firearm was thrown from car in the initial collision), while only one, Special Agent Risner, was able to emerge from the battle without a wound. Once that was made public the round died an instant death. The two bank robbers (William Matix and Michael Platt) were armed with a Ruger Mini 14 chambered in .223, 12 gauge shotguns, and .357 revolvers. This ammo was considered to be the most deadliest ammo ever made. A word of caution is that while this individual had dropped his weapon a fled a short distance I ordered the poor agonizing suspect hand cuffed. Bullet innovation, invention and design have come a long way baby and there are plenty of effective, accurate, reliable and better self-defense rounds available today. Time Magazine described the Black Talon rounds as a bullet "designed to unsheathe its claws once inside the victims body and tear it to pieces." Your email address will not be published. MUCH safer for firing in a small home. Introduced in 2007, the Ranger T Series is still available for purchase today. This ammo was considered to be the deadliest ammo ever made. "The Best Damn Gunshop in the World" 7626 Westheimer @ Voss, Houston, Texas 77063 BROWSE OUR New Arrivals! When a hollow point bullet hits a soft target, it mushrooms out to what looks like a flower with petals. This ammo was not only controversial, some called it downright offensive. You may have heard that it was produced with a Teflon coating but in all actuality, it was a special round coating focused on preserving barrel life. Wounding effects of the Winchester Black Talon bullet - PubMed Probably. Winchester pulled it in 1993 and permanently discontinued the ammo in 2000. No one weapon will ever be enough in my mind. to work with. I really like Hornady ammunition but like several that I know along with others that have commented having the same results with Hornady Critical Duty/Defense not expanding as it should, have switched to Federal HST rounds for EDC. *Editors note: The source has chosen to remain anonymousdue to the sensitive nature of their work. The points of the claws are actually the result of the geometry of the copper jacket being inside the nose cavity and subsequently turned inside-out on impact. Thus If you have among the last boxes manufactured. The companys excellent marketing campaign should be creditedfor putting the round out front and center, garnering more than 1.5 million views on YouTube over just a span of a few days. Sign In Why Join As a Dealer Dealer Login. Can you guess what it is? 223 rounds. In the end of the nearly five-minute shootout, five FBI agents were wounded and twoJerry Dove and Benjamin Groganwere killed. In the end, Winchester decided to discontinue the pistol caliber line in 1993, and the entire line completely in 2000. This is unlike traditional hollow point designs where the expanding jacket petals peel back almost completely behind the expanded mushroom shape. Physician Boyd Stevens, the San Francisco Medical Examiner who performed the autopsies, later reported at the 1994 International Wound Ballistics Association's conference in Sacramento that the wound trauma caused by Black Talons was unremarkable and that all victims died due to penetration of a vital structure.[6]. [15] It is similar to the Ranger SXT series and the older Black Talon design in its structure, and is available in several calibers and loadings. Teflon-coated bullet - Wikipedia Winchester stopped producing the Black Talon round in 2000, and that kind of fed into its mythology and mystique. In 2009, Winchester-Olin released a new hollow point bullet in its Supreme Elite line of handgun ammunition called the Bonded PDX1. Regardless however after that day & event, we in south as Leos began changing from 38 revolvers to semi autos First to 9MM then eventually to 40 call semi with JHP rounds. Soon a wave of negative PR caused Winchester to cancel the ammo . The publicity around the shooting led to some jurisdictions restricting the use of Black Talon bullets, but they were not banned outright. They are just arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes. The leading Government Policing Agency after a lot of testing and searching has decided that this is the bullet that they will carry with them to protect you from the evil that prowls the night., We have to consider that in just about every courtroom, especially the courtroom of public opinion, we are not the good guys. Just look at what happened to that promised red tide that was going to overwhelm the Senate, the House, and every Governors Office from Maine to Arizona. Glock 23 Gold dot 165 gr / HST 180 gr / Silver Tips 155 gr almost always light Noslers (135gr in 10mm, 115gr in .357 Sig) from Underwood Ammo. Instead of a large hollow-point cavity, Gold Dot G2 has a shallow dish filled with a high-performance elastomer. The fifth hit Matix in the face, penetrated the jaw bone and neck and came to rest by the spinal column. For personal carry. Ideally both! Benjamin Grogan: Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistol, nine rounds fired. While the Black Talon may have been a PR nightmare for Winchester, it was not a complete loss for the company. If you have a mushroomed slug driven into your chest, you wont feel any better if that slug is all blunt around the edges; the wound channel will still be a shredded mess with blunt jacket petals protruding from the edges of the slug. Mireles was hit in the left forearm, creating a severe wound. A surgeon in Houston said Black Talon rounds "explode inside a person like a thousand razor blades.". Pilgrim ammunition located in Sarasota Florida makes terrific self defense rounds. While the suspect was wearing only a T shirt the round penetrated the sternum and failed to enter into the vital organs. 29K views 1 year ago I grabbed some of the infamous Winchester Black Talon 9mm. For a round very similar to the old Black Talon, check out the Winchester Ranger series or the PDX1though both are difficult to find. Its specially designed hollow point wont plug while passing through a variety of barriers, and the bullet jacket and core hold together to provide nearly 100 percent weight retention through even the toughest materials. When a hollow point bullet hits a soft target, it expands to what looks like a flower with petals. Winchester Ammunition 230 Grain Jacketed Hollow-Point (JHP) Ammo Details. On expansion, the bullets unsheathed sharp talon claws that looked like a buzz saw. "[N]o injuries have been reported to medical professionals removing the bullets" in "Police use new brand of bullets Surgeon says removal may endanger doctors" by Dan R. Barber. In fact, some sources say that as many as 400 police departments at some point or another carried Black Talon ammunition. What are black tipped bullets? The real truth is that you will be in-famous. It reaches 70 ammo reserve with mods, receives 24 ammo per Heavy or Sword Ammo Finder brick, or 40 per regular brick with the new scavenger artifact mod. Wish I could write this well! But try a self-defense plea with cop killer bullets. Seven months later, Gian Luigi Ferri loaded his gun with Black Talon ammunition and walked into a law office in San Francisco, California, killing nine people. 357 black talon ammo for sale on GunsAmerica. Buy a 357 blac [10], Colin Ferguson used Black Talon ammunition for his Ruger P89 919mm pistol during a 1993 shooting incident. Another popular characteristic of Black Talon ammo is a coating known as Lubalox that is applied . Due to all of the controversy, the Black Talon has now become a notorious legend of almost mythical proportions. However, it was soon discovered that the bullets also had improved penetration against certain surfaces (like car doors and windows) because it decreased deflection. He spoke in detail of the Shoot Out to our students. was no expansion although you are correct that the body can keep going with a lot of punishment. In fact, for the first two years, Black Talon was on the market it received an award from Shooting Industry magazine for its effective lethality. [23] Mireles reached the drivers side door, extended his revolver through the window, and fired his sixth shot at Platt. If so how much do you want for them? Black Talon bullets are not inherently illegal in the United States. As a result, the FBI began the search for a more capable sidearm and more effective ammunition. Newsletter Signup Home Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition (BP1075) Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition (BP1075) I went to carrying a 40 cal Sig plus a backup and even 2 shotguns in my unit. This ammo has not been manufactured for many years. I had no idea I was sitting on a collectable round that now sells for close to $100 a box. That soon led to a popular assumption that the rounds were armor-piercing and presented a threat to police. Mireles fired four more rounds at Platt and Matix, but hit neither. . Not true. * New York and New Jersey : Banned from owning Hollow Points. It does excellent damage and comes with the Crow's Wings perk that launches a Heavy Attack projectile at enemies. I personally used to use federal hydroshock mainly because thats what was available to me and what I was used to until watching some videos on YouTube about the g2 research rip rounds and the underwood extreme defender rounds.the rip rounds do kinda look impressive but at the same time dont look to me like they would have much of a impact.now the underwood on the other hand Ive seen go through a class 2 vest and still penetrate 16 of ballistic gel leaving a wound cavity thats just massive and that was only a 9mm round.ordered both brands recently and plan on testing them out for myself especially since theyre only 115grain rounds in a 40cal which is what my cc cal is.curious to see if I can get the same results penetrating diff barriers such as drywall,plywood,glass,sheet metal and a vest with a 40cal opposed to the 9mm in video.have a strong feeling that my new carry round will be the underwood extreme defender though.pray i never have to use one in defense but if i do i dont think anything or anyone would still be standing after getting hit with a extreme defender round. Some were enthralled by the black bullets and wanted to examine them closely. Where the Gage-class did resemble its cousin, however, was its heavy armor--the . Remington will never tell you this, but those in the know say Remingtons Golden Saber has petals designed to expand the same way as Black Talon. On the more expensive side, the Cor-Bon solid copper DPX in any caliber is a also good self-defense round. Of course, with a normal round, a Teflon-coated bullet has no advantages overa conventional bullet when striking a protective vest. As he did so, he was shot a second and third time, in the right thigh and left foot. Platt then apparently positioned the Mini-14 against his shoulder using his uninjured left hand. You must become a subscriber or login to view or post comments on this article. Black Talon and Today's Best Self-Defense Ammo Praesidus brings homage to the military watch tradition. [19] Frye assisted Hanlon. It is a very devastating looking wound channel. Jerry Dove: Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistol, 20+ rounds fired. Shopping with us is absolutely safe - you never have to worry about credit card safety when shopping here Share your latest AR build or photos from the range with #RangeDayFriday for a chance to win a new firearm! [24], The shootout involved ten people: two suspects and eight FBI agents. Hollow points are designed to rapidly expand after hitting a target, causing as much damage as possible and reducing the chance of overpenetration. He thought our use of Ranger On internet forums, gun enthusiasts frequently joke that that SXT stands for "Same eXact Thing",[13] though the official branding is Supreme eXpansion Technology. This enhances rigidity which allows the sharp "talons" to remain perpendicular to the wound path. Introduced officially in 1991, this hollow point round is especially famous for its unique-looking projectile. Best Handguns for Detectives in Fiction | The Writer's Guide to Weapons. Critics alleged the ammunition caused unnecessary physical damage. Additionally, it must penetrate clothing including heavy jackets, denim, and leather. Black Talon is a brand of hollow point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition for sale. Platt also served with the the Rangers in Nam where he gained his combat experience. They sell for $50-$75 around. Test results are generally given in terms of expanded diameter, penetration depth, and weight retention. With great BC, excellent expansion values, and very high weight retention, these solid copper pills serve across the spectrum of rifle and pistol platforms and their associated libary of targets requirments. A hollow-point that hits with over 500fp creates enough hydrostatic compression of the vascular system (regardless of the placement) to cause capillaries in the brain to burst. Killed by a .223 gunshot wound to the chest. .357 Mag 180gr Winchester Black Talons | Defensive Carry And no, these rounds were not armor-piercing, despite what urban legend says. I second and add my own thumbs up to G-Mans comments in praise of this article by Suzanne. The after-action report of the shootout also set a new precedence for the protocol on ammunition evaluation and testing. SXT Description: FOR SALE: WINCHESTER BLACK TALON .45 acp BRAND NEW ~ OLD STOCK SIX (6) boxes of 20 rounds each of Winchester Black Talon, 230grain DP load (deep penetrator) collectible and great defensive round. With that, I wanted to take the time to compliment you on one of the best written articles to have ever covered this topic. XDS 45 Hornady Critical Defense / Golden Saber 185 gr which includes rounds from both semi-autos & wheel guns. [15], Platt fired one round from his Mini-14 at Risner and Orrantias position, wounding Orrantia with shrapnel created by the bullets passage, and two rounds at McNeill. Buy a 357 black talon ammo online. What type of bullet if that? I have personally used Black Talon ammo in a 40 Cal Glock and can tell you first hand that it lacks important penetration on impact. San Francisco's Black Talon Ban Comes a Little Too Late Black Talon Ammo - Hand-Tools.com For ammunition to pass the FBI Test Protocol, it must meet a minimum of 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin, but no more than 18 inches. Killed after being shot 12 times. As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Doves 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING VETERAN JOURNALISM - JOIN SOFREP+ , PO Box 1077 MURFREESBORO, Tennessee 37133 United States, P.O. 20rds - 45 ACP Winchester Black Talon 230gr. HP Ammo - AmmunitionToGo.com When the Black Talon expanded, it resembled talons, essentially creating a massive wound channel. The 230gr JHP manufactured by HOP Munitions results in a slightly slower FPS of 876 FPS but offers a greater downrange energy of 392 ft/lbs. We reserve the right to edit as appropriate, delete profane, harassing, abusive and spam comments or posts, and block repeat offenders. Ranger "Talon" ammo for a while, was also marked SXT on the box, but the bullets themselves were not the same bullet . Buy WINCHESTER BLACK TALON 9MM 147GR SXT AMMO 2 FULL BOXES (40 ROUNDS) : GunBroker is the largest seller of Pistol Ammunition Ammunition All: 984252181. Black Talon has a black bullet with six serrations at the nose seated on a shiny nickel-plated cartridge. I know that Underwood Ammo sells some pretty nasty rounds called Controlled Fracture rounds. 's blog. Mostly because they are 25 years old and other companies are reproducing them under different name for as low as $18. a full box of the original black talon Close range so we can retrieve the bullet. But it seems that they maybe more Gun Owner In Name Only. I still see students in my Concealed Carry Classes who buy the gun, get the permit, then put the thing up on a shelf in the closet never to be seen again. Box 378 Red Hook, New York 12571 United States. boxes. The bullet, fired by Risner or Orrantia, penetrated Platts right forearm, fractured the radius bone and exited the forearm. Two high-profile mass shootings in 1993 led to the demise of Winchester Black Talon ammunition. You can use it in melee, like a normal sword, but you can also shoot void projectiles. Platt then fired his rifle at Mireles who was running across the street to join the fight. I had the chance to see countless 1,000s of spent rounds in all calibers & brands carried by LEOs. Any idea on value??? They are just arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with flesh. I actually prefer them to the Golden Sabor offering because of their overall consistant expansion values but thats just me and should not be considered a negative comment on the excellent GS round.
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